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Talk:Marker 12B
Inverted Field It might be worth noting that, contrary to the red marker which presence inhibited Necromorph cells' replication, proximity of this new marker seem to "reanimate" them according to an audio log. :Drawing off of what this comment is saying, I would question the validity of the statements about the S-12 Marker projecting a Dead Space field. Nothing in the game hints at this in the slightest. If anything, this Marker would appear to have projected an inverse one. --ToaCodyNuva (talk) 01:48, 6/27/2012 01:48, June 27, 2012 (UTC) Convergence Event Addition I added this section as it seemed to be a pretty pivotal point int he series. In all the various games, and other media no other Convergence event occurs. It is often alluded to and hinted at to be the production of the Hive Mind body as hinted at in Martyr, but it has never been seen before now so it felt right to add an account of what happens without adding any interpretation to make sure facts are right. I humbly suggest that any further discussion about the ramifications of this event be under a separate article about Convergence if there isn't already one. :-) AlphaBovine You bros need to remember to sign your names after each of your posts. Sure I can look at the person who last edited, it but how do I know you aren't some impostor?!?! D: Anyway I think we should definitely do that. I'm surprised there isn't one already. Also, due to the nature of Convergence and how little we currently know about it, I'm going to grudgingly suggest a "Theories" category on the Convergence page for people to place theories and ideas that have SOME semblance of being true (or other stuff to back it up). This way people will stop dumping their "Ubermorph is a protoHivemind" and whatnot on the Ubermorph page. 'Course if this can't happen I'm totally cool with it. I'm just getting sick of people sticking their theories in places they don't belong e.g. a wiki who's goal is to present factual information. Qsvgxn 05:27, February 5, 2011 (UTC) Has any one noticed on top of the marker the power completely dissaper ? Outerhaven 16:37, February 5, 2011 (UTC) My questions are why do the markers, even though man made from materials, have sentient thought patterns and why do the black and red markers, same in shape, powers and origin, have 2 very different objectives? The red marker wanted to stop the necromorphs but the black marker wanted to create more necromorphs. Mekapix2 17:19, February 5, 2011 (UTC) That is a fair question Mekapix, and I will respond with an 2 excerpts from Martyr which tells why each marker is likely to have very distinct differences: 1st: "The (Black) Marker wants to help us," Stevens claimed. "Harmon has hold us what you (Altman) figured out: the Marker wants to be replicated. It was broken and must have known it was broken. It wants us to make it again so that it can help us. But we'll improve the technology, Altman. We'll make one that works and then make it even better." 2nd "We also have all of Guthe's research," said Stevens. "'We can lear from it what went wrong with the (Black) Marker and learn how to repair it. We ran our first experiments, synthesizing and reproducing the (Necromorph) creature's DNA, while you (Altman) were still unconscious. Hermetically sealed labs, a variety of fail-safes. We're being a great deal more careful abit it than Guthe was....." Therefore it is a safe conclusion that the Black, Red and Site 12 Marker are going to have distinct differences in behavior. This is most clearly evident in the useage of Nicole's visage as she has a seemingly noble purpose in Dead Space and then an evil purpose in Dead Space 2. AlphaBovine 03:41, February 8, 2011 (UTC) However, it is possible that that a Marker could be the source of " The madness" The feeling of the Marker "Wanting to be discovered." It is possible that the matierals of the marker do not matter, but the codes ingraved into it. As mentioned in certain logs, the Marker gives off multiple signals from common radio signals to Alpha, Beta, and Gamma brain waves. The interprition o the brain waves and signals given off by the Marker are completly dependent of the subjects intelligence. As told by a Chapter 13 log and by the fact that educated people such as Michal Altman, Issac Clarke, and Nolan Stross were able to resist the Markers madness for as long as they did. Michal Altman thought that the human brain had a natural defense agianst the markers "Corruption" This would make sense because people suffering from the madness have two vocies. The one who convinces the affected individual to study the Marker promising eternal life, usally through vocies heard only by the affected individual. The second voice, Expressed by the apirition of deceased people who had some sentimental importance to them ( this furthers the evidence as the Marker would not be able to acess memories of a person). This second voice tells them to " Leave it alone" Even going as far as convincing them or tricking them into murdering people important to the Markers research and devolpment. - Dr.Faust I believe the Marker is using all these factors just to get what it wants. We know that in the final battle against Marker Nicole, she states the 'Makers need be consumed to be reborn'. I believe that the Site 12 Marker needs to absorb the person with the signal that created it's code, aka Isaac. Isaac gained this code from the Red Marker. I also theorise that the Red Marker needed to absorb it's maker, the one who gained the original code from the Black Marker, aka Michael Altman in Martyr. But, Altman was dead by the time it's construction was complete, and it knew that. So the Red Marker planned to seperate itself from the Necromorphs, stopping a premature 'Convergance event', and when Isaac came, planned it's destruction, as it was technically useless without Altman's body. Finally, the Black marker. We don't know who built it, and therefore, we don't know what it was planning to do without it's 'maker'. I guess I've summed up all I could. I don't know if this is right or not, but it's a thought.Tazio1 21:44, March 26, 2011 (UTC) I've added a bit of interpretation. Only known facts, revealed in-game or in this article here. I don't know how to add references; someone do that please. RaduB Key Differences The Site 12 Marker differs in 3 distinct ways which, in my view, deserve to be mentioned. First and foremost is the immense size of the marker as well as its pulsating color. Secondly is the ability of the Necromorphs to get very close to the Marker. In Downfall the security leader takes refuge under the marker as the Necromorphs can not get too close. The Black Marker from Martyr prevents the Necromorphs from entering the large containment room for the marker. It is unknown why this is or if this is a new behavior from the marker when the amount of Necromorphs hits a critical mass. Since the markers are man made there can be any number of variables as to why this might occur. - AlphaBovine Just was playing the part where convergence begins; it appears that while they could approach the pedestal of the marker, there was still distance between themselves and the marker that couldn't be breached. Thats how it appeared to me--it seemed that they couldn't enter the "cloud" the surrounded the marker while it was activated. Thats my opinion at least. SoulSurvivor17 20:01, February 8, 2011 (UTC) Hey Soul, I'll admit that it is a long focal length shot and it can be hard to tell. For me it looked like there right on top of it. I have posted a screen shot of it here for group comparison. I think in either event one thing we can both agree on is that they are closer in this instance than in any other depiction. In Martyr there were several rooms away, in Downfall there were at least 75 - 100 feet away, and in here they look to either be on top of it or up to 10 feet away. It might also have something to do with the Convergence about to take place which might have a different effect but I have no proof to back that up as of yet. AlphaBovine 20:13, February 8, 2011 (UTC) definitely would agree that they are much closer, guess it all depends whether thats the base or a pedestal it's on. SoulSurvivor17 20:21, February 8, 2011 (UTC) Well, one thing to me is clear: Necromorphs can approach the Marker during Convergeance. My theory is that since the Marker can know exactly where its 'Maker' is (proven by Nicole's constant appearances in DS2), when a Marker senses that its Maker is in a decent vicinity, its 'Necro-polarity' reverses, since there's no more reason for it to repel Necromorphs, because both Necromorph bodies AND the 'Makers' need to be in a close enough proximity to successfully carry out a Convergeance Event. I also have another theory for the Nicole apparition's altered personality. Because the Marker can tap into (at least) its Maker's lateral geniculate (where the codes are stored), it only makes sense that it would have access to other aspects of its Maker's brain, like his level of intelligence or his personality, as well as his memory. With this in mind, it makes perfect sense that the Marker would try and kill Isaac off; if he can survive the Second Aegis 7 Incident and destroy a Hive Mind, there's no doubt that, given the circumstances, Isaac could and would indefinitely prevent a Convergeance. Though, at that point in time, Nolan was still at least semi-sane. It's unlikely, but perhaps when Nicole was trying to choke Isaac, just as he admitted that Nicole was all he had left, the Marker simultaneously deemed Nolan a lost cause in attempting to lead him to the Marker to be absorbed and saw that Isaac was the only hope of Convergeance left. So the Marker changed its tactics and decided to lead Isaac to the Marker, but once he was there, the Marker changed faces again and tried to kill him, only this time, its intent was to have him absorbed so that the Convergeance was successful. There are my theories; feel free to tear them apart. ^^' Qubix010 02:32, April 3, 2011 (UTC) Move to titan marker Hey I really think this should be moved to titan marker, because it was built on titan station, and because of its impressive size. I dont think think it should be called site twelve marker, because there was another marker being contructed there. And it makes it sound like site 12 was devoted exclusively to the marker, i know the same can be argued for titan, but titan station wasnt built solely for the marker. ralok 21:31, February 11, 2011 (UTC) Hey Ralok, I'm going to have to disagree on this point. Mainly because the entire station is referred to as "Site 12" in game by whom we presume to be an EarthGov or Unitology power person and therefore it cements itself as that title. Another reason is that we don't know if the marker Isaac sees being constructed during his trek to the main chamber is actually meant for Site 12. The end statement of the other sites needing to pick up the slack suggests that they could be mass producing markers for other planets or sites. Thoughts anyone? AlphaBovine 13:04, February 12, 2011 (UTC) The Marker was trying SOOO hard after playing the game once, i kinda saw things differently the second time around. One of the things I was looking at was the fact that the marker wanted Isaac dead the entire time. Now, this makes me think of a few things. For example, I thought about this in relation to Stross. Imagine that Stross was under the control of the marker from the very beginning, from the first time he saw you and you couldn't make it through the security gate. The only reason that he appeared sane was so that you would meet up with him eventually. The only reason that he attacked Ellie when you weren't there was because he had successfully made it to Gov Sec and no longer needed to maintain the ruse; he was simply using the attack on Ellie as a means to draw out the target he really wanted: Isaac. Now Think about Nicole. When you first encounter her, she's straight up trying to kill you. It's only around when The government Sector is drifting away that the encounters with Nicole become more about "accepting" her death. The only reason that the marker chose to do that was because it needed Isaac to reach the site 12 marker. A possible meaning of what a convergence event is... I myslef personaly think that a convergence event is when a large group of necromorphs form together to make a whole form such as the hive mind... since in the first game it is said that the hive mind telepatically controlls the necromorphs they probably are trying to make hive minds to protect the markers and the other necros.... hence the phrase "make us whole"?????Porkchopdude12 00:15, March 4, 2011 (UTC) Marker Intentions? Sooooo, as another person mentioned in an earlier "discussion" (in quotes because no one replied), the author mentioned the intent of the site 12 marker. Either it wants Isaac dead, or it wants to "absorb" him (as it said during the ending). For most of the story, it wanted him dead i.e. stabbing him in the eye with the needle hallucination, choking him before he accepted Nicole's death, etc or it just wanted to mentally screw with him. And then after he accepts her death, the marker wants to help him so that he can get to the marker and be absorbed by it i.e. it tells Isaac exactly how to get to the marker. So basically what I'm asking is, wtf? It seems that it had plenty of opportunities to kill him, such as giving him a hallucination/headache, during which he's often in too much pain to do anything, during a necromorph fight. If it did not want to kill him, then why try to make him stab and choke himself? If it wanted to kill him, without absorbing him (assuming it knew this was necessary from the beginning of the game), then why did it change it's mind? If you think that the needle-suicide hallucination was more connected to Isaac's insanity then disregard this because that would explain it. It seems to me that the developers are having trouble getting their stories straight on what each marker does.Dartyn 07:22, March 13, 2011 (UTC) :Yay, let's try to make logical conclusions about an alien artifact we know nothing about OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Or recieve definite info, disregard it and assume radically different things. Everything we can do is SPECULATE. And judging by what I see in this kinds of threads, I want whatever you are smoking. 09:50, March 13, 2011 (UTC) : :Okay, we actually know quite a lot about the markers. And this isn't an alien marker. So either you're trolling or you honestly didn't read what I wrote and you haven't played all the games and read/watched all the tie-in media.Dartyn 20:18, March 13, 2011 (UTC) :Yeah dude, i mean i'm not saying that what i said is correct, i was just throwing it out there as thought-food. I mean, what reason would the marke have had to change its mind halfway through the game. "I like this dude... wait no... Fuck him". What reason would the marker have to have violent mood swings? Manic-depressive sentient hunk of rock? Nice. : :Or I was looking for an answer with some sort of grounding in the games' events that I overlooked or failed to deduce. Instead, from you, I got ad homenim attacks, lies, misrepresentation, misnomers, and no answer. I expected someone to say something along the lines of, "Oh, you overlooked that Isaac obliterated this or performed such and such action which made the marker change it's intentions. Also, if you factor in his mental state, it is reasonable to say such." If you didn't have any semblance of an answer, why did you even say anything? Dartyn 03:57, March 22, 2011 (UTC) : :Whoa, lets cool things down. Komodo, people can speculate to their hearts content here, it's sorta what discussion pages are for, to discuss things. I honestly think these 'attacks' are uncalled for, and any continuation will be reported to admins. Does that sound fair enough? : :And dartyn, for your ideas, possibly the signal in Isaac's mind was in limbo, e.g. it wasn't sure what Isaac would do yet, and had to gauld him into trusting the 'signal' through force, and through the guise of his lover. Remember, Isaac hates the Marker, and the signal needed Isaac ready to finish Convergance, so it just warped his perception of the signal into his inner demon, not the actual signal. : :I hope this helps things. Tazio1 21:44, March 26, 2011 (UTC) How was this marker destroyed? Maybe I'm being retarded but no one has brought up this question before and it seems strange to me. Let me prefix this by saying that I have extensively played all of the games, seen both movies, read the book, etc. so I know a bit about the Dead Space universe. Now, as my question states, how was the site 12 marker destroyed? Isaac accessed his memories through the 'Eye Poke Machine' and then he went towards the marker to try and destroy it. And that's pretty much it. He doesn't activate a self-destruct sequence, he doesn't shoot it a million times (besides in his mind), and yet the marker was destroyed. The article states that it was "essentially dead and crumbling" after Isaac removed it's influence from his mind and that makes a lot of sense, but there are no references to any audio/video/text log, dialogue, or anything else that even implies this. Maybe I just missed it, and would happily accept any input on this issue. As a side note, the article also states that titan station was destroyed because "The reactor cores of the station become unstable, resulting in the complete destruction of the site and the remains of the Marker." so I'd like to know where someone got that from. Dartyn 07:11, March 19, 2011 (UTC) I don't think that anything can stay in one piece after the blast we saw at the end of Dead Space 2. I think it's safe to say that it's destroyed. But who knows? Maybe there are shards flying around like in Dead Space: Aftermath. I guess we'll have to wait and see untill the next part comes out.< 21:29, March 19, 2011 (UTC) I understand that and that is well supported by the dialogue after the credits that the marker is unrecoverable but I'm asking about the point right before Ellie crashes through the roof. There's an evacuation order over the intercom system, and the whole plant exploded. I understand that the reactor cores were unstable but why were they that way; was it because of the convergence event? Or were the necromorphs fuckin' around? Or maybe we'll find out in a couple years.Dartyn 01:48, March 20, 2011 (UTC) :My guess is that the Marker required or was linked with whatever was in Issac's head. When Issac destroyed that mental component the Marker became incomplete and started falling apart. As for the reactor cores, you'll notice the Marker was charged up before the mental fight yet wasn't afterwards. My guess is that the energy was discharged making the reactor cores unstable just like how the energy discharge from the Red Marker disabled the gravity tethers. Also, if every Marker Issac destroys leaves behind shards, the last Marker he will encounter will be made of all glued-together shards LOL! -- Reignfire 05:59, March 20, 2011 (UTC) : :That was pretty much the explanation I was looking for. Even though it is speculation, it does have some basis in what we know. Lol, yeah the post-credits dialogue pretty much stated outright that the marker was obliterated so there will be no pieces to glue together!Dartyn 17:49, March 20, 2011 (UTC) Convergence, possibly the reborn of the Marker Makers? After researching on everyones theories of convergence. I noticed the most famous theory was the "Creation of a new hive mind". However, I disagree with this. Simply because of these reasons 1: The black marker in Martyr planted codes into Altmans head, just like the red marker did to Isaac. However, Altman was never absorbed, and convergence never happened with the red marker on Aegis 7. 2: After the destruction of the Red Marker on Aegis 7, Multiple shards were impacted on the hull of the Ishimura. The Magpies in Dead Space: Salvage found these fragments. And as well on that ship, was another Hive Mind. Now.. did a shard of the marker enter convergence? I don't believe so. Simply because it's maker wasn't there! 3: Hive Minds take a long time to be made, it took about 3 years for it to fully form when the magpies found it on the Ishimura. I don't know about you guys, but I've noticed a slight change with the necromorphs during Convergence. The slashers make screeching noises, there is some language involved, but I can't make it out. I strongly believe convergence is the reborn of the Marker Makers. My guess is the makers were dying, so they made a Marker (Black Marker) and sent it off with their dna stored in hopes of finding a new species, taking them over, and then reborn their race. ~~CEC JAKX~~ March 28, 2011 :For the Reactor cores, I think that has to do with DS:Mobile. There are some logs that quote the saboteur as saying she triggered the critical core meltdown.--Unclekulikov 18:25, March 26, 2011 (UTC) : Source for the Latin name?. Ok, I understand that none of these names are "official" and are made up by the community. Every name is pretty much a brief description of the artifact, based on what we know, which is the logical think to name it after. The Latin one, however, Gigas Venalicium, it's just show off, unless it's based on some official source. Should I/we/somebody remove it? --[[User:Noemon|''Noemon]][[User talk:Noemon| *'talk'*'']] 17:53, May 31, 2011 (UTC) Trigger for Convergence What do you think triggers a Convergence Event? I don't know exactly what Convergence is (but really, who does?), but I think it was either triggered by the large number of Necromorphs (like Tiedemann said, but I think it's more than just that), the presence of it's maker, Isaac, or maybe it knew that Isaac was trying to destroy it. Ishimura Elite 12:55, February 8, 2012 (UTC)